2 people raised by narcissistic moms describe feeling like an after-thought, and turning into people-pleasers as a result

• Two women who say their mothers are narcissists told Insider about their relationships.
• They said their needs and interests always came second to their mothers'.

When Karen Girdner failed a couple of her freshman courses and put her college scholarship in jeopardy, all she could think to do was call her mom. But when she picked up, Girdner didn't get the support she was searching for.

"After five minutes of us talking it through, she was like, 'Well I have friends coming for dinner, and I'm really busy this weekend, so maybe we can talk. You need to just figure this out by yourself,'" Girdner, who was 18 and living across the country from her family at the time, told Insider.

Girdner said she started to cry, and her mother said she couldn't handle her when she was emotional and hung up. Today, Girdner says she's certain her mother is a narcissist.

People sometimes use the term "narcissist" loosely, to describe an unsavory ex or workplace nemesis.

But narcissism is a personality disorder that exists on a spectrum, as Insider has previously reported. Anyone can exhibit signs of narcissism, like a lack of empathy and tendency to be hyper-critical, but 6% of the population is diagnosed with the most extreme form, narcissistic personality disorder, or NPD.

People with NPD can become manipulative in their personal and professional relationships, withholding love until they get what they want and making every conversation about themselves and their superiority.

That textbook definition rings true for Girdner and one other woman Insider interviewed, who say they were raised by narcissistic mothers who showed little interest in them, and that it's had long-lasting impacts on their lives and relationships.

'It was a slow dawning realization that she was not at all interested in me'

Though neither of the women could confirm a doctor said their mothers had NPD, which is the only way to get a diagnosis, they both said they believe their moms fit the criteria.

Girdner said she first considered that her mother could be a narcissist in June 2020, when her therapist suggested it. After talking about her mom at length, her therapist suggested she read "Will I Ever Be Good Enough?: Healing the Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers."

"My mom checked off every single box, except maybe one," Girdner told Insider."And then I called my sister and I was like, 'Oh my gosh, I think we might be onto something.'" Girdner's sister agreed.

For LL Kirchner, who has written about her fraught relationship with her mom before, the realization her mother could be a narcissist was a slow process.

Growing up, Kirchner didn't find it strange that her mother would often say, "I wish I never had children." Even when Kirchner checked herself into a drug and alcohol abuse rehabilitation program as a teenager, she didn't find it strange that her mother didn't want to help and was disinterested in her health issues, she said.

Those comments were never an issue, in part, Kirchner says, because they didn't speak often; her mom lived overseas for many years. It wasn't until Kirchner became an adult, and her mother was diagnosed with terminal cancer, that she started to interact with her more regularly. It was in that painful moment that she started to notice her narcissistic tendencies in their daily phone calls.

"Going to her for mom energy was like going to the hardware store for apples. It was not going to happen. It was a slow dawning realization that she just was not at all interested in me," Kirchner told Insider.

Having a narcissistic parent can lead to people-pleasing as an adult, experts say

Both women say they've learned to accept their moms, but they also share a remarkably similar feeling that their moms' disinterest caused them to become people-pleasers in their adult relationships.

Girdner said her mom "always had the last word" in her family. These days, when friends ask Girdner's opinion on plans, she finds herself saying "I don't care" out of instinct.

"It's almost like I'm like too afraid to voice my opinions, or fear not being heard," said Girdner. She added that she latches on to new love interests who show her attention, "because I think I lacked that in my childhood up to now," she said.

Such was the case for Kirchner, who said she was previously married to a man who asked for a divorce over the phone while he was in another country. Looking back, Kirchner said, she sees how she chose romantic partners who neglected her emotional needs.

The child of a narcissistic parent may subconsciously learn to put their parent's needs first in order to get attention and validation, causing them to become a "parentified confidante," California-based clinical psychologist Mark Zaslav wrote on Psychology Today. This pattern can continue into adulthood, where a person ignores their own needs and feelings to make another person satisfied.

If you're the adult child of a narcissistic parent, the most important step is learning to let go of guilt

Someone raised by a narcissist could have trouble trusting their own emotions and instincts, according to psychotherapist Erin Leonard.

Adult children of narcissistic parents often have low self-esteem, feelings of guilt about being selfish, and trouble setting boundaries, Zaslav wrote.

Leonard said learning to consciously notice when you doubt yourself, "may be all that is required to inspire a person to trust how he or she feels and resurrect healthy boundaries."

According to Zaslav, learning to release feelings of guilt and disloyalty with the help of a therapist is the key to healing. He wrote that coming to terms with a narcissistic parent's limitations can help you set realistic expectations about your future relationship.