Rudy Giuliani dismisses Columbus' atrocities in conversation with Steve Bannon: 'Did he do anything that other men and women of his age would have done? No.'

• Rudy Giuliani discussed the controversy over Christopher Columbus with Steve Bannon on Monday.
• Giuliani suggested the Italian explorer didn't do anything that others of his time wouldn't have.

Rudy Giuliani appeared to shrug off the many crimes attributed to Christopher Columbus during a conversation with Steve Bannon.

The conversation between the two Trump associates on the network Real America's Voice coincided with Monday's celebration of Columbus Day, a national holiday meant to commemorate the Italian explorer's arrival to the Americas in 1492.

Criticism of the holiday's eponym has surged in recent decades, with Indigenous Americans and other groups protesting the celebration of a man who most historians believe committed and allowed his men to commit atrocities, including rape, enslavement, and murder.

But when asked about the explorer by Bannon on Monday, Giuliani seemed to look past the countless allegations against Columbus, as first reported by Raw Story.

"Did he engage in some immoral acts himself?" Giuliani said. "Did he allow his crew to do it? There seems to be evidence that he did. But we don't know that for sure. It's hundreds of years ago."

"Did he do anything that other men and women of his age would have done? No," he added. "And have all of our other heroes done that? I mean, John F. Kennedy - now it's a different age, but now we know things about John F. Kennedy that make him considerably less than perfect."

The former New York mayor went on to bring up the Roosevelt administration's turning away Jewish asylum seekers fleeing the Nazis.

"I can find every single one of their heroes, on the left and on the right," he said.

In recent years, several US states and cities have replaced Columbus Day with Indigenous Peoples' Day to acknowledge the atrocities committed against Indigenous communities throughout America's history.

President Joe Biden last week issued the first presidential proclamation of Indigenous Peoples' Day, declaring the holiday would be observed October 11 in honor of America's first inhabitants.

In a White House release acknowledging that the holiday would share a date with Columbus Day, Biden encouraged the country to not bury "shameful episodes of our past."