'Let me explain it to you: wars, people die': Republican lawmaker fires back at Democrat after being accused of downplaying Ukrainian deaths
- Republican Rep. Doug Collins of Georgia, fired back at a Democratic colleague after being accused of downplaying the casualties from the ongoing conflict between US-backed Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed separatists.
- Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell of California referenced Collins's statements earlier in the day, in which the ranking member said the White House's temporarily suspended military aid would not have saved Ukrainian lives.
- "You can deny this as much as you want. People died in Ukraine at the hands of Russia. And Ukraine ... was counting on our support," Swalwell said.
- Collins rebutted by reading an October article from the Los Angeles Times and said "there is no way to link ... the dozens of other deaths directly to the lack of aid."
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Republican Rep. Doug Collins of Georgia, the ranking member of the House Judiciary Committee, fired back at a Democratic colleague in one of the more testy exchanges of Thursday's 14 hours of debate.
He was responding after being accused of downplaying the casualties from the ongoing conflict between US-backed Ukrainian forces and Russia-backed separatists.
Democratic Rep. Eric Swalwell of California, in his remarks at the committee's debates on the articles of impeachment against President Donald Trump, appeared to reference Collins's statements earlier in the day.
The ranking member said, "You're in a war. For those of us who have actually actually been in a war zone, people do die in a war zone."
Collins balked at the suggestion the military aid would have saved Ukrainian lives and that "this money did not stop that." He later referenced the testimony of under secretary of political affairs David Hale, who in November said the military aid for was "future assistance ... not to keep the army going now."
The two lawmakers were referring to the temporary suspension of nearly $400 million in military aid by the White House in the summer, which is at the heart of the ongoing impeachment inquiry against Trump.
Democrats and some of their witnesses in the hearings have claimed that Ukrainians would "undoubtedly die without the US assistance," and posited that the delay contributed to the death toll of over 13,000 Ukrainians since the war in 2014.
"You can deny this as much as you want. People died in Ukraine at the hands of Russia. And Ukraine ... was counting on our support," Swalwell said.
"But they died when this selfish, selfish president withheld the aid for his own personal gain." Swalwell added, referring to the Democrats' allegation that Trump withheld the aid to pressure Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky to investigate his political rivals.
"Don't tell yourself Ukrainians didn't die," Swalwell said. "They died."
Collins rebutted by reading an October article from the Los Angeles Times and said "there is no way to link ... the dozens of other deaths directly to the lack of aid."
"Mr. Swalwell, I'm not sure if the hearing is bad on that end because undoubtedly it is - I did not say no one died," a visibly upset Collins said. "No one said that. And you can accuse whatever because you're just just sitting there just telling untruths. Because you don't get it because you have a personal agenda."
Collins, who deployed to Iraq and currently serves as an chaplain in the US Air Force Reserve, referenced his military service.
"As someone who sat there and watched people die on the battlefield, I know when people die," he said. "I know when they come into the hospital and they've been shot up or they've been hit with [improvised explosive devices]. So to come in here and to take a shot and say, 'Oh, Mr. Collins doesn't think people died,' that is a load of hogwash."
"That's the most ridiculous comment, and there's been a lot of them here," Collins added.
A nearby Republican lawmaker replied: "You got that right."
"We know people died. Let me explain it to you: wars, people die," Collins continued. "Is that difficult to understand?"
Following a grueling debate that lasted until nearly midnight on Thursday, lawmakers adjourned their session and planned to delay a vote on two articles of impeachment until the next morning. The charges against Trump include the abuse of power and obstruction of Congress.
The House of Representatives have launched four impeachment inquiries into a sitting president in its history but have only voted on articles of impeachment for two presidents - Johnson and Clinton. Nixon resigned.