People think Trump is saying one of 3 things on the bombshell Michael Cohen tape, and the answer could have significant ramifications for what's next
- People now hear at least three difference things at a pivotal point in the secret recording of a conversation between President Donald Trump and his former longtime lawyer Michael Cohen
- They were discussing buying the rights to the story of a former Playboy model who says she had an affair with Trump years ago.
- The answer of what Trump actually said could have significant ramifications on what happens next.
- Some people can only hear "pay with cash."
- There is muddled audio right before that comment.
- Trump's legal team says the president said "don't pay with cash."
- A forensic audio expert says Trump said "I'll pay with cash."
What President Donald Trump said at a pivotal point of a conversation with his former longtime lawyer Michael Cohen has become the center of a fierce dispute that could have significant ramifications for what happens next.
A secret audio recording, which Cohen is said to have made in September 2016 without the president's knowledge, features a conversation between the two men in which they discuss buying the rights to the story of a former Playboy model who says she had an affair with Trump years ago.
The existence of the tape was first revealed Friday. It was seized by the FBI in its April raids of Cohen's home, office, and hotel room as part of a criminal investigation focusing on him. Trump's attorneys waived privilege claims over the tape and 11 others seized from Cohen.
On Tuesday night, Lanny Davis, an attorney for Cohen, provided CNN with the tape. The National Enquirer purchased former Playboy model Karen McDougal's story for $150,000 in August 2016 but never published it. That practice is known as "catch and kill," and it effectively silenced McDougal's allegations.
On the tape, Cohen and Trump discuss a plan to purchase the rights to McDougal's story from the outlet's publisher, American Media Inc. - whose head, David Pecker, is a longtime friend of Trump.
Though the tape makes clear Trump was aware of the subject prior to the 2016 presidential election, his campaign later denied any knowledge of the topic. While Trump's legal team conceded the conversation was about McDougal, it said nothing illegal took place and no payment was made.
The center of the resulting debate between Trump's personal lawyer, Rudy Giuliani, and Davis centers on what Trump said about the method of potential payment:
- After Cohen claimed he spoke with a top Trump Organization executive about how to set up a company and the financing for such a payment, Trump responded, "What financing?"
- The only three words clearly audible after that are "pay with cash." Some only hear this on the tape.
- Muddled audio comes before Trump says "pay with cash." Some hear Trump saying "don't pay with cash." At least one expert hears him saying "I'll pay with cash."
After Trump made the comment in question, Cohen replied, "No, no no." The tape then cuts off with a voice that sounds like Trump saying "check."
'The president is not an idiot'
Giuliani told Fox News after the tape aired on CNN that the word Trump used before saying "pay with cash" was "don't," signaling that he did not want the potential payment to be kept under wraps. Giuliani pointed to the word "check" as proof that Trump wanted such a payment to be done the right way.
"And again, the president is not an idiot," he said.
Alan Futerfas, an attorney representing the Trump Organization, told The Washington Post on Tuesday that "cash" in the conversation was referring to making a one-time payment rather than financing a transaction over time.
"Anyone who knows anything about the company or how the president does business knows there is no green cash," Futerfas told CNN. "Everything is documented. Every penny is documented."
On Wednesday, CNN commissioned an audio forensics expert to review the tape. The expert, Ed Primeau, said he had not read a transcript of the recording beforehand and did not watch any news reports on the tape. He said he does not regularly follow the news so he can stay unbiased.
Primeau concluded that Trump responded with "I'll pay with cash" - not "don't pay with cash." Primeau used tools to enhance the audio, isolate specific words and examine sound waves on a screen, CNN wrote.
Primeau added that the tape is clearly cut off after "check."
Wanting to pay for the potential expense in cash - making it impossible to trace - could suggest Trump wanted to conceal evidence of a possible campaign finance violation. If he wanted to pay with a check, however, Trump's intentions would be viewed differently.
Barbara McQuade, a former federal prosecutor, told The Post that if such a payment was "willfully" not disclosed, it's "a crime." Even if a payment was not made, there "could still be conspiracy" to commit such a crime, she said.
The conversation could become important in relation to another payment - the $130,000 Cohen paid to porn star Stormy Daniels ahead of the 2016 presidential election to keep her quiet about allegations of a 2006 affair with Trump.
McQuade said the tape "could be used as evidence of intent in the larger context of other evidence."