- Testimony continued in E. Jean Carroll's rape and defamation lawsuit against Donald Trump on Thursday.
- Carol Martin told the jury about how Carroll confided in her about the alleged rape in the mid-1990s.
One of the friends who says she can corroborate E. Jean Carroll's rape allegation against former President Donald Trump was questioned about an email she sent Carroll in 2017, in which she said Trump must be stopped and asked her friend to "scheme."
Carol Martin is one of the two friends that Carroll told about the alleged assault, which the longtime Elle advice columnist says happened in a Bergdorf Goodman dressing room in the mid-1990s. Carroll is also suing Trump for defamation, pointing to his comments on social media calling her story a "hoax and a lie."
On Thursday, Martin was questioned in Manhattan federal court about an email she sent to Carroll about Trump in 2017, just a few weeks before Carroll would start work on "What do we need men for?" — the 2019 book in which she publicly accused Trump of rape for the first time.
In September 2017, Martin sent an article making fun of Trump — who she called "Orange Crush" — to Carroll, and followed it up with another message saying "this has to stop" and "as soon as we're both well enuf [sic] to scheme, we must both do our patriotic duty." Carroll responded: "TOTALLY!!! I have something special for you when we meet."
Martin said that the email exchange had nothing to do with Carroll's decision to come forward with her story about Trump. However, she described herself and Carroll as "very liberal, feminist women" who "often talk about ways to change the climate."
While Carroll herself could not recall what the "something special" that she had for her friend was, Martin said she remembers that it was a toy squirrel for her granddaughter. She later said that "scheme" was a reference to supporting Democratic party causes.
Martin also told jury about the day she learned her friend was "attacked" by Trump.
The two were working for the same TV network at the time, and Martin says she invited Carroll over to her house after work, and her friend confided in her about the incident.
Martin's recollection of the conversation was almost identical to what Carroll recalled on the stand earlier in the trial. She said that Carroll kept saying she had been attacked by Trump, and appeared "agitated" and "anxious."
Martin said she had to ask Carroll to start from the beginning so that she could understand what happened.
While Martin doesn't remember Carroll using the word rape to describe what happened to her, she said her friend told her that she told another friend, Lisa Birnbach, about the incident, and that Birnbach told her she had been raped and should go to the police.
Martin said Carroll expressed to her that she didn't want to report the incident, and Martin said she agreed with her. Over the years, Martin said she's repeatedly "questioned" her decision to give that advice.
"I'm not proud that's what I told her,' Martin said.
Martin said she was testifying voluntarily, but that her decision to take part in the trial had nothing to do with her feelings about Trump, and all to do with supporting her friend.
"I'm here because I want to reiterate and remember what my friend E. Jean Carroll told me 27 years ago. I believed it then and I believe it today," Martin said.
Carol Martin was at first hesitant to be involved in the public allegations
Other text messages shown to jurors on Thursday indicate that Martin was at times more ambivalent about Carroll bringing litigation against Trump.
In a text message to a relative about Carroll's civil lawsuit, she said her claims against Trump had become part of "a lifestyle."
"It's gone to another level and not something I can relate to," Martin said in the message. "For her sadly, I think this quest has become a lifestyle."
In another message, Martin said she thinks Carroll was "acting a little scary" and was "in too deep" but "loving the adulation."
During cross-examination, Trump's attorney Joe Tacopina brought up other text messages where Martin said she had "hate" for Trump and that he was "spreading his stank" over the country. Martin called his daughter Ivanka Trump and son-in-law Jared Kushner "two junior grifters sashaying into meetings with world leaders" and referred to an uncorroborated claim that Trump enjoyed women urinating on him as "heaven."
Tacopina noted that Martin never called Trump "a rapist" in these messages.
Martin said that her feelings about being connected to Carroll's accusation have changed over the years. She said initially, she didn't want to be publicly named, out of concerns for her safety.
"I really worried about the climate of the country," Martin said. "I wasn't sure I wanted to be associated with something that was so difficult to talk about."
She said she eventually decided to be named because she felt it touched on important women's issues.