Video resurfaces of Matthew Perry in fiery debate about addiction: 'You're just a person who is talking and is wrong'

• A 2013 clip of Matthew Perry debating about addiction went viral after Perry's death.
• He and Peter Hitchens clashed over whether addiction is a disease — a view with wide scientific support.

A video of Matthew Perry in a fiery debate with a British journalist about the nature of addiction has resurfaced online since Perry died.

The encounter, from the BBC show "Newsnight," aired in the UK in December 2013.

It shows Perry discussing addiction with Peter Hitchens, a prominent rightwing British columnist, and Baroness Molly Meacher, who chairs a UK parliamentary committee for drug policy reform.

A short segment from the debate went viral over the weekend in the wake of Perry's death. In it, an exasperated Perry tells Hitchens: "You're just a person who's talking who's wrong."

Asked about the 10-year-old clip by Insider, Hitchens said on Monday: "I suspect we probably both enjoyed the encounter more than you might think."

The debate began around the issue of drug courts, but quickly devolved into a discussion on the nature of addiction.

Hitchens is a proponent of the idea, which is not widely supported by medical science, that addiction is not a disease and is the result of lapsed willpower.

The American Medical Association defines addiction as a disease.

Perry, who was found unresponsive in his hot tub on Saturday, was a passionate advocate for addiction-recovery causes. The cause of his death is yet to be determined, though sources have told some media outlets that no drugs were found at his home.

Addressing Hitchens on "Newsnight" back in 2013, Perry said: "I'm a drug addict. I'm a person that, if I have a drink, I can't stop. And so, it would be, following your ideology, that I'm choosing to do that."

"Yes, you do choose," Hitchens told Perry.

"You have a choice. Whether you drink or not, you have a choice whether you take drugs or not," Hitchens added.

When challenged on the fact that few authorities on the topic agree with Hitchens, he said: "Well, quite often, quite unfashionable ideas are unfashionable because they are unpopular with influential people."

"Or wrong," Meacher interjected.

Hitchens then asked Perry what the "objective diagnosis" of addiction is.

As he began to respond, Perry broke off, taking exception to Hitchens' skeptical expression. "It's supposed to be grown men here, and you're making faces like the guy who's wearing the pants."

Perry then went on to describe how he experiences addiction.

"So, this is what happens to me," he said. "I start thinking about alcohol, I can't stop. I can't stop thinking about it."

"What's the objective physical proof of this inability to stop?" asked Hitchens. After Meacher tried to interject to discuss the existing scientific evidence, Hitchens insisted that it was a matter of willpower, and advocated greater criminalization as a deterrent.

"You're making a point that is as ludicrous as saying Peter Pan was real," Perry later told him.

The impact of the debate was considerable. After the show, Perry expressed gratitude to Meacher for backing him up, although they didn't keep in touch, she told Insider on Monday.

Newsnight producer Ian Katz wrote that he had tried to make sure Perry and Hitchens "leave the building through different exits," according to a screenshot saved by the Mail on Sunday at the time.

Hitchens confirmed that to Insider. "We did leave separately, but that was because [Perry's] huge entourage took up an entire lift," he wrote.

Following the segment, Hitchens jabbed at Perry's entourage in a Mail on Sunday column in which he robustly defended his views and said the actor displayed "pure entitlement."

Since the news of Perry's death emerged, Hitchens has been active on X responding to people sending him what he described as "gallons of slime."

He told Insider by email that he bears Perry "no ill-will," and offered his condolences to his family. "May he rest in peace," he wrote.

The discussion "did not alter my view" on the subject of addiction, he said.

Meacher told Insider that Perry had been "enormously helpful" for public understanding of addiction by speaking out.

"Addiction is a mental health problem, which is treatable in addiction clinics with intensive psychological therapies, but it's hard to treat," she said.

"Somebody in that position who admits that he has an addiction and he just can't deal with it, gives heart to the many, many people across the country," she said.