The Russo brothers on their latest big-budget movie 'The Gray Man,' and where their focus lies now post-'Avengers: Endgame'

• Anthony and Joe Russo's next film, "The Gray Man," stars Chris Evans and Ryan Gosling going head-to-head.
• A potential adaptation has been on their radar since working on 2014's "Captain America" sequel.

Anthony and Joe Russo set their sights on "The Gray Man" about a decade ago.

It was supposed to be their next directing project after 2014's "Captain America: The Winter Soldier." But after the Marvel sequel became a hit, an adaptation of Mark Greaney's best-selling series seemed unlikely.

As others took a crack at it over the years at Sony Pictures, the Russos moved on to direct three more wildly successful Marvel movies: "Captain America: Civil War," "Avengers: Infinity War," and "Avengers: Endgame." "The Gray Man," meanwhile, failed to get off the ground. At various points, Brad Pitt and Charlize Theron were reported to be attached to the project.

After directing the highest-grossing Marvel movie of all time, the brothers returned to the book that caught their attention years ago, securing the rights back from Sony to give it another go. On July 15, "The Gray Man" will finally hit select theaters before streaming on Netflix one week later.

Touted as Netflix's most expensive film to date at over $200 million, the upcoming release reunites the directing duo with "Endgame" screenwriters Christopher Markus and Stephen McFeely, and star Chris Evans.

Evans isn't playing the good guy this time around, though. The Russos had fun turning the former Captain America into a mustachioed sociopath, Lloyd Hansen, an ex-CIA agent hired to take out Six (Ryan Gosling), a chiseled CIA agent who has stumbled upon shady secrets about his boss (Regé-Jean Page).

In late June, Insider stopped by the Russos' Los Angeles-based production studio, AGBO, to speak with the siblings about their journey to bring the Greaney series to screen.

The Russos shared that Charlize Theron was attached to an early version of the film, how Ana de Armas' character pays tribute to an early idea to gender-swap the lead role, their hopes for a full-blown "Gray Man" franchise, and whether or not they have any plans to return to Marvel.

At one point, Charlize Theron was considered for the lead, but it conflicted with 'Mad Max: Fury Road'

"The Gray Man" wasn't always at Netflix. I believe it was a Sony movie at first. I know it went through a few iterations. I believe there was an iteration with Charlize Theron as a gender-swapped version of the lead. Where did you both come in and why is this the adaptation that you wanted to bring to life? Was Charlize ever a part of the conversation when you both came on or did you guys start from scratch?

Joe Russo: While we were making "The Winter Soldier," we had not had a conversation with Marvel about what we were gonna do next. There was no "Civil War."

We were presented with this book that we thought was a fantastic read, really propulsive. We loved it as an exercise in action, really inventive set pieces, and a compelling thematic lead character.

I did an adaptation of that book while we were working on "Winter Soldier" for us to direct next, but then we got offered "Civil War" and then "Avengers." We, of course, had to step away from the project and it went on a journey of its own without us.

When we came back, after "Avengers," some of the writers had taken cracks at the script. We went back to the draft I had written, secured the rights from Sony — got it back from Sony — and brought in Markus and McFeely to work with me on the script. That's the current iteration of the movie that you see.

Did you ever consider the gender swap?

Joe Russo: There was a point I had encouraged that. Originally, when I left the project, I was still trying to help them out with it and we thought it would be a really compelling idea, but I think it was a scheduling issue that may have conflicted with the George Miller film that she had done.

So you did consider Charlize?

Joe Russo: Yes. In fact, I believe I had a conversation with her about a potential rewrite to the script. But then, she ended up going onto that film and was no longer available to do it.

'The Gray Man' has 9 action set pieces, but the directors aren't sure if it's 'technically' Netflix's most expensive film

Deadline reported that this is the most expensive Netflix movie ever made with a budget of "upward of $200 million." Is that true?

Joe Russo: It's an expensive movie. We don't know —

Anthony Russo: — whether it's technically the most expensive.

Joe Russo: It's a very big film. There are big movie stars in it. There's a big cast in it and there's nine action set pieces. So, not a cheap movie to make, but we can't tell you... Their budgets are not apples to oranges with a traditional studio budget.

I was curious how closely you guys worked with author Mark Greaney because there are a lot of changes in the movie from the book, right from the start. Did you work with him on any of the changes and adapting it? Lloyd Evans, especially, has a physically more active role.

Joe Russo: He was amazing. Early on, when I started adapting the book, I spoke to him several times. He's fantastic. Very, very bright writer. Very talented.

He was very open. He said, "Look, I get it. These are movies. They're different." So, we were inspired by the book. There are, of course, some direct set pieces from the book. There are some new set pieces.

Lloyd's a slightly different character. He's more capable than he was in the book. You get Chris Evans to play Lloyd, then you don't want Lloyd sitting in rooms on phones, talking to people. You want him actually being active and out there in the world and having a different backstory than the character does in the book.

Ever since the small glimpse of Ana de Armas fighting in "No Time to Die," I've wanted to see her given more space in an action role. Correct me if I'm wrong, I believe that she plays an entirely new character who isn't in the books.

Anthony Russo: That's right.

OK. When I listened to the first book, I thought that it was very testosterone-heavy. I was kind of upset one of the only female characters was a veterinarian's assistant, not even a veterinarian. What was the inspiration for introducing a female co-lead? Did that come out of the original gender-swapped idea from a while back?

Joe Russo: It certainly did. We were looking for a way to balance out the movie, balance out the narrative, balance out the ensemble. We try to create stories that have a broad umbrella, then invite more of the people than less people under that umbrella to watch the story.

We knew we wanted a strong female character in the film. It's hard to have a character who's alone in a movie for large parts of the film because they can't talk about anything with anyone. You can't find out more about that character through a conversation because they have no one to speak to.

We knew we needed a complimentary character and we wanted somebody that had a slightly different motive, slightly different backstory, equally as competent, equally skilled, that he would clash with. There's a bit of a "Midnight Run"-quality between the two of them in the film.

Anthony Russo: Since you're tuned into the differences from the book, that's something that you can do in a novel that you can't do in a movie. You can explore a character as an author while the character's alone, because you're writing about the character in the third person, right? In a movie, you can't do that. So it was really important that we have a partner-in-crime, so to speak.

Joe Russo became aware of Regé-Jean Page after watching 'Bridgerton' with his wife. He was impressed with him on 'Saturday Night Live.'

How did you convince Regé-Jean Page to come away from "Bridgerton" to work on "The Gray Man?" How did he get on your radar? I'm curious if you guys are secretly "Bridgerton" fans.

Joe Russo: My wife is a huge "Bridgerton" fan. That's how we discovered him. I watched all of "Bridgerton" with my wife. We did not pull him away from "Bridgerton." I don't want anyone coming after us.

Anthony Russo: It timed up actually, right after he left.

Ah, OK.

Joe Russo: We thought he was fantastic. I saw him on "Saturday Night Live" and I thought he was charismatic and really, really compelling and fun to watch. We thought he'd be perfect as a villain.

Was there ever a thought to adapt "The Gray Man" as a series instead of a movie for Netflix? There are currently 11 books in the series. I thought every book could probably be its own season.

Anthony Russo: Not for this initial sort of idea. Part of the reason why we formed this company, AGBO, and why we partnered with Markus and McFeely, who wrote all of our Marvel work, is that we think about things as narrative universes.

Joe and I were film fans before we ever tried filmmaking. Fans like to swim in their favorite material. You like to spend time with it. You like to think about other iterations of it. You like to run with it and make it your own.

We like doing the same thing as creators. It doesn't have to just live as a two-hour movie. Maybe, at another point in the future, you make another two-hour movie in the series.

We think about everything as sort of a narrative universe that can be explored through a feature, through a series, etc. So part of our concept of what we want to do with this includes other versions of films and series.

So is the plan to continue this as a series of films or maybe films and spin-off shows? Is this something that Netflix sees potential in for a massive franchise? And if so, is the plan for both of you to continue directing or to hand off any follow-ups to give other directors an opportunity to try their hand in the space?

Joe Russo: The hope is that it's commercially successful and that the audience loves it. We have to see how the audience responds. We loved making it. We love the character. We love the world. We would love to make another one as filmmakers because we liked swimming in it.

We are more interested in how you branch narratives and universes off into different forms of media — a movie, a TV show. That, to us, allows for different modes of storytelling. You can spend more time with certain characters in 10 hours of television than you can in a two-hour movie.

But the action is very expensive and it's hard to get that kind of budget, a commensurate budget, to do a television show, which is why I believe the flagship, and the main driver, is always going to be films if we are blessed to continue.

Marvel isn't on the agenda right now. But that doesn't mean they won't consider another project in the future.

Is a return to Marvel out of the question or is this — "The Gray Man" — and other projects where your focus is now? You've already made the highest-grossing Marvel movie in the world. You've succeeded in that space. Is there more to do there or is it a goal to find success elsewhere on-screen and behind the scenes? Do either of you feel a responsibility to lift up other voices?

Anthony Russo: Look, we adore Marvel. Our time making those films is among the highlights of our career, for sure, and we loved collaborating with all of them there. We don't currently have any plans to do anything more with Marvel, but that doesn't mean at some point in the future — it could come up.

We are very focused on what we're doing here. "The Gray Man" is an example of that, but we have several other projects that we've been cooking up with Markus and McFeely, real world-building projects, one of which we're gonna start shooting later this year. That's basically where our energy is right now.

Joe Russo: Our company, AGBO, was really formed for two reasons. One was to give us creative freedom to make large-scale movies that, in turn, provide a financial bedrock for smaller films like "Everything Everywhere All at Once," more adventurous narratives, more experimental narratives, movies like "Mosul" or "Relic"
that we've made at AGBO.

This requires a lot of focus, this company, and that's really where our focus is at the moment.

"The Gray Man" is in select theaters on July 15 and streams on Netflix on June 22.

This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity and to remove film spoilers.