- In his first interview about the film, director
Jason Woliner revealed behind-the-scenes secrets to filming "Borat 2 ." - He told Insider that from the very first script he read, the plan was to get Rudy Giuliani on film.
- Woliner also spoke about how he tried to talk star and filmmaker
Sacha Baron Cohen out of making a "Borat" sequel the first time they met for fear it might tarnish the legacy of the original. - The director revealed secrets behind the making of the movie, like the website they created for conservatives Jim and Jerry to find that would lead Borat to Tutar at the gun rally.
- He also said that after the CPAC event scene in which Vice President Mike Pence appeared behind a podium, which was shot with iPhones and DSLR cameras, the secret service looked through their footage to make sure they weren't a threat.
- The Tom Hanks cameo was a one-day shoot that came after Baron Cohen emailed Hanks and asked him if he would be in the movie.
We have heard from Sacha Baron Cohen, his amazing costar Maria Bakalova, and even some of the real-life subjects like the fan-favorite babysitter and bubbly Instagram influencer, but we still not had heard from the director of "Borat Subsequent Moviefilm" - until now.
"I was sent this crazy encrypted link to an outline script," Jason Woliner told Insider in his first-ever interview about the hit film. "I opened it up and the name 'Borat' wasn't in it, but it took me about a page to realize he's probably not making a movie about a journalist from Guatemala named Sergio. I was like, holy s---, he's doing 'Borat 2.'"
Woliner, whose previous work includes Adult Swim's "Eagleheart" and Comedy Central's "Nathan for You," signed on as the director soon after reading that script and has been on a whirlwind ride ever since, watching the sequel become as big - perhaps even bigger - than its predecessor.
Woliner spoke to Insider about the making of the movie, which included dealing with the secret service, convincing Tom Hanks to make a cameo, and spending the entire production trying to get Rudy Giuliani on film.
In his first meeting with Baron Cohen, Woliner tried to talk him out of making a 'Borat' sequel
So where does this journey start for you?
I was the first person Sacha called about directing this. I went into the meeting with him and Anthony Hines, who is a writer that's been involved in everything Sasha has done, Monica Levinson the producer, and a few other people. I told him I loved the script, but I came on very strong. I basically said that "Borat" is the funniest movie ever made and that it's almost certainly a mistake to do a sequel.
I said in almost every version of this it's a disaster: most comedy sequels aren't good, the long-delayed sequels are extremely tough, and because of the nature of the movie, Borat is one of the most popular comedy characters of the last century so you have to find people who don't know who he is.
So you gave them real talk right from the get-go.
I don't know why I decided to do that. I just felt feisty that day, but I also gravitate towards projects that seem impossible. If something feels easy why spend two years of your life on it?
How did everyone react to this, especially Sacha?
Sacha of course was completely aware of all of it and agreed with everything I said. If I had to guess, I think he respected that I came in with eyes open that I knew what a daunting task it was. A couple of days later, I was invited to the writer's room for a week to see if I got along with Sacha and his writing team. It was the entire group of writers from the first movie and a few new ones. Two days in, I was offered the job and I never left.
The heartfelt scene between Jeanise the babysitter and Borat was not in the original script
Back then, was the whole story laid out in front of you or was it constantly evolving?
A little of both. From the very beginning, Sacha had a vision for the kind of overall story and theme of the movie. He wanted to make a movie that got out before the election that throws into focus what America has become under [President Donald] Trump and could make a meaningful impact. But at the same time, [he] also [wanted to] tell a compelling father-daughter story with the new character of Tutar. He had all that from day one.
But the details came a thousand times a day. And then it changed in the biggest way when COVID came into the picture. We had to decide, do we stop or push on? But that thought didn't last long because we wanted this out before the election. And also, my big thing was if we do a movie about 2020 and not have the pandemic, it would be like setting a movie in the fall of 2001 and not mentioning 9/11.
When COVID-19 hit the country and you halted production, did you have enough then to make a movie if you wanted to?
We did not have a full movie when the lockdown began. We started shooting last fall and...we shot in [chronological] order. That's partially for performance reasons. It's great for the actors to track the emotion of the story. But also through the general structure and big ideas, the outline of the movie...always changed from shooting something.
How so?
It wasn't in the original plan to go back to Jeanise the babysitter at the end of the movie. But after shooting her that first time and falling in love with her, one of the writers had the idea of having Borat go back to her. Then that became the scene where he realizes he loves Tutar.
We always knew Borat and Tutar would be separated and he would have to stop her from giving herself up to Rudy.
It just became a question of how that happens?
Exactly. So the idea came up with the babysitter. And it was important for me in this movie to not just be revealing negative qualities of real people. I remember very early on saying that the big difference to today and 2006 when the first "Borat" came out is watching someone revealing they are racist is not shocking and compelling as it was back then. I felt what would be more surprising is revealing people's positive qualities and patience. So that's what we hoped with Jeanise and she went way beyond. But that was also the case with Jim and Jerry, the lockdown guys. They aren't bad guys, they are just fed bad information.
Woliner promises Jim and Jerry were not in on the joke
I'm glad you brought up Jim and Jerry because my theory, and I feel I'm not the only one, is because you are shooting them during the pandemic, they had to have been in on the joke. Just in terms of safety and putting Sacha in that situation where he's with people for multiple days, they had to have known. Right?
We had ways to make sure the people didn't know who Borat or Sacha was. It's this long process that's very delicate, but by the time they are on camera, we are certain they don't know. Jim and Jerry knew they were being filmed and we took the proper safety precautions - they were tested for COVID. But I can swear to you they were not in on it.
They believed he was a real guy. And once they were living in the house, we pretty much put in robo-cams that are used in "Big Brother"-type shows because we wanted them to just live with him and relax. We just wanted them to be real.
Where were you?
I was living in the house, too. I was in a different bedroom. I slept there. And I would sneak into Sacha's room at night with a writer or two and we would figure out what to do the next day. But for a lot of it, Sacha was on his own with these guys.
But there were certain storylines we had to hit. We knew we wanted them to find Tutar on the computer. So that was the kind of thing where we set up a website and engineered it so when they searched for her they would find that site with her video. So they felt they really found her. For that, I was standing just a few feet away, and to watch that moment play out it was like watching a movie in real life. They really cared about Borat and wanted to help him.
The only thing you don't see on camera is Jim and Jerry came to me and asked permission to take him to the rally so he could find his daughter. I was like, "Yeah, we can leave the house and do that." Though in reality, we had already been planning to get them to the rally and infiltrating that.
Have you heard from Jim and Jerry since?
No, I have not. And I haven't seen that anyone has been able to track them down yet.
Rudy Giuliani was the movie's main mark from the beginning
Was going after Giuliani ever on your guys' minds before the pandemic?
Here's the craziest thing: Giuliani was the name from day one. [Laughs.] Rudy was the name in the first version I read and what we didn't anticipate was the timing of everything. Rudy became very prominent again just before our movie came out.
You're taking about the Hunter Biden communicating with Ukraine officials story.
Yeah. For the year and a half we were making this, he wasn't at the level of prominence he is now. But suddenly just before this came out, he was trying to make a big splash and a few days later The Guardian came out with the piece on his scene in the movie and that just blew up. And from my vantage point, it discredited anything he was trying to do.
Maria Bakalova did mock interviews to prepare for her scene with Giuliani
When you do the actual interview with Giuliani, is Maria wearing an ear piece? Did you do mock interviews with her beforehand? How did you get her prepared?
We did mock interviews and a lot of rehearsing because you don't know how these things are going to go. So instead of a script, we had a document that had every single scenario we could think up that could happen. "If this happens, you can do this." And we just rehearsed with her a lot of different scenarios the day of. But once she was in there, Maria was on her own.
You only rehearsed the day of the interview?
Yeah. Once we were back up and running during COVID, the pace was fast. We went to Washington to do the lockdown, then to the rally, and then a few other things before doing Rudy. We didn't have a lot of time between things.
In the room, we built a cubby for Sacha to be in and I was in a nearby room watching and texting with him and figuring out when he should come out and save her. We had a million ideas of how it could go and when he laid down on the bed my jaw hit the floor.
There's more of the Melania Trump animated movie we haven't seen
How did the animation bit come about?
It was an idea that came through the course of shooting. One of the writers came up with an idea that Tutar would have a Disney knock-off Melania story that she would watch as a way of showing her character's hopes and dreams. This company Titmouse did it. They did it all while we were filming the movie and they would send us rough versions and we would give notes.
There's actually more of that animation. Ultimately only two short clips made it, but there is some more. We've talked about releasing it.
Sacha Baron Cohen emailed Tom Hanks to be in the movie
How did you get Tom Hanks?
[Laughs.] Once we came up with the idea that Borat would be COVID patient zero, someone had the joke that we see him stop in Sydney and he coughs on Tom Hanks. Sacha knows him and just sent him an email and we just crossed our fingers that he would be up for it. He said, "Sure." That was a scene we wanted to be very clear that was scripted and we weren't actually ambushing the most beloved man in America. And actually, I'm in that scene. I'm the guy trying to get the selfie and Borat interrupts.
Woliner and his crew had to attend five hours of the Conservative Political Action Conference so as not to draw attention, but the secret service still caught them
What was the hardest bit to pull off?
The logistics of CPAC was intense. We had to put 12 camera operators in the audience and I had to plan out the [shooting] angles without ever being in the room beforehand. We were the first in line, that's how CPAC is done, you just line up. We lined up at 5 a.m., we didn't have media credentials, we were just attendees. All we had were iPhones and little DSLR 5D cameras.
So I had to place all these camera operators in the room in a way so we can get the angles on Pence and angles on where Sacha is going to reveal himself. And then cameras on reaction shots of people. But I had to do that not looking suspicious to the security and secret service. If I'm running around looking like a director I would be caught out. To an outsider, it looks like we're pulling off a heist, but in reality, we're not doing anything illegal.
We set it up and then we had to wait five hours. I had to listen to five hours of Republican speeches drumming up hysteria about socialism.
And keeping tabs on Sacha who is in the bathroom this whole time, right?
Yeah. We're texting the whole time. I'm on a thread with him and with all the camera operators, and the crew. Sacha comes in wearing a fat suit and a bullet proof vest in case the secret service thinks he's trying to kill the vice president. And he's got his Trump facial prosthetic which takes hours to put on. If the authorities asked him to take off the mask he couldn't just pull it off.
This isn't like something out of "Mission: Impossible."
He physically couldn't. It's much easier for Tom Cruise to take those heads off than it does in real life. [Laughs.] So because of that we also snuck into CPAC an Oscar-winning prosthetic makeup artist just in case Sacha was apprehended and demanded the face come off she would have the tools to do it.
There's so much tension but I was also so bored because I had to listen for hours of the crowd being warned about how Bernie Sanders is going to socialize medicine. And I had to get up and cheer when everyone else did because if I didn't I would draw attention to myself. It was a crazy mix of terror and boredom. Then that night the secret service tracked us down to make sure we weren't a real threat [to the vice president].
When did you know that you pulled it off and "Borat 2" may actually live up to the original movie?
It was along the way. I remember feeling it was working in my gut after stuff like the debutante ball and the doctor in the crisis pregnancy center. When we had Borat and Tutar together it felt really funny and something we hadn't seen before. The great thing with working with Sacha is he never phoned it in, he was determined to make it as good as it could be and he was definitely aware of the legacy of the first movie.
And when we ultimately had to show it through streaming instead of theaters, this felt so necessary just because how dark things had gotten in the world. If you could do a piece of
This interview has been edited and condensed for clarity.